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Hellraisers Journal – Monday June 8, 1914
New York City – Judge Lindsey Continues Before Commission on Industrial Relations
From the Washington Evening Star of May 21, 1914:
Pearl Jolly, Mary Petrucci, Mary Thomas,
Mrs. Lee Champion, Rachel and Olga Thomas
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New York, New York, May 28, 1914
Judge Lindsey testified before the Commission on Industrial Relations during the afternoon session of May 28th. Present were Chairman Walsh, and Commissioners Ballard, O’Connell, Lennon, Garretson, and Harriman.
[Judge Lindsey continues:] It is well for the people of this country to know the violence of capital, the violence of corporations, that is silent, if you please, and not noisy like the violence they promote. I think, therefore, that they owe it to our people to consent to the appointment by the President of a board of arbitration, who will go out there and investigate those conditions and listen to both sides, and both sides being willing, assuming, of course, the board is fair and just and acceptable to both sides, to abide by the decision they may come to. And I think a great mistake is being made by the powers that control the industrial government of this country, the seat of which is here in New York, and is as superior to the President of the United States, unless he is willing to exert himself in spite of it, as the boss over the employee in a factory. That is my view of it.
And being in that position, knowing that they have said, or claimed, to have the Constitution back of them, certain laws back of them that were primarily designed for property, they owe it to our people to concede, to give, if you please, some of this terrific power by consenting to this board, and letting them, so far as it is possible, at least, for temporary purposes, to adjust the difficulties up there and to relieve our people of the passion into which they have been plunged, but the fact that when these Federal troops were withdrawn, if they are, because of this condition that has grown up for years and years, beginning with the corporations themselves, their own lawlessness, will be too much, and there is a possibility of the repetition of Ludlow unless the President will keep the Federal troops there, and to bring about any sort of settlement, go a step further and appoint this industrial commission, and if both sides do not consent to this arbitration, then it is our contention, in the interests of peace, because of the military necessities of the case, because a republican form of government, with the confession of the governor of the State, has broken down in Colorado and the Constitution says the Federal Government shall guarantee us a republican form of government, that he would be justified in taking some means, even though they be forcible, to compel those who refuse to arbitrate to consent to arbitration.
Now, that is the feeling of many of our people and I speak that feeling. I am not here to speak on behalf of the militia, I am not here to speak on behalf of the mine owners. I am not here to-day to speak on behalf of the mine workers. I am simply here to voice my feelings, after years of experience, being down in the midst, knowing both sides, understanding their viewpoint, to make clear to you, as an industrial commission, in a general way, some of the conditions that have existed in our State and that exist in other States, that have brought about these results, in order that, in time if not now, there may be one result—an investigation like this, and that will begin to tackle conditions and tackle causes that make for these effects, and I would feel false in my duty to the children of my State and the children of this country if I did not take a bigger opportunity for this problem than merely sitting behind a desk and trying the immediate troubles of children. I have done that for 14 years, and I have looked into the faces of these children, and I have tried to think and find out why do boys do bad things? Why do girls do bad things? And I think I have found out. And I look at it and then I ask myself, why do men do bad things? And the reason in the one case is largely the reason in the other; it is the condition, in a large measure, not altogether, say, the environment, their viewpoint.
My plea is for a better understanding of these questions. Therefore I thought if I came over to New York after the President of the United States had given us a most courteous hearing, that Mr. Rockefeller himself would be willing to see me and permit me to present this phase of the situation. But after a courteous request for that privilege he has refused, not only to see me, but while I am of no particular consequence perhaps, I think it is of great consequence that he should have heard the miners’ wives whom you courteously and kindly and considerately heard here yesterday, whom the President of United States heard, because, I contend that when men receive profits or have possessions that promise profits, they haven’t any right to take the impersonal view that he takes, and deny any responsibility. Kings have gone down among their people, even in the days of the old feudalists, or even in modern conditions, we have known of kings going among their people and lending them succor and help and not being so impersonal and above them that they would not listen to their woes and troubles and miseries, and be willing to lend something of themselves to really find the cause of these things, and help to solve them, and surely Mr. Rockefeller is no bigger than the President of the United States. He isn’t any bigger than kings, who have done it.
But in the new feudalism that exists in Colorado, where towns are built up and owned by private corporations, if you please, these men refuse any present relation to conditions like these, refuse-those at the top—to listen to the wails and pleas and explanations and the facts which might be presented by these women. And I say that that attitude of such men is doing more to produce lawlessness and talk about confiscation and what they call anarchy than all the anarchists I know, and the men who stand for that sort of thing in the opinion of some of us who have studied these industrial conditions, if they are ever injured and harmed, and I pray God they never will be, they can damn nobody but themselves, because it is simply a new and novel method of committing suicide, and the President ought to grab men like that and save them from jumping into the river, like the policeman would grab the poor devil on the street who attempted to jump in the river, because that is the way they are going, and I think he ought to do it.
I hope I may be one of those to bring this to the attention of Mr. Rockefeller from down in the midst, where I have seen the struggle of these people, and I think his heart would be touched if he could see and hear it. I believe if he would show the personal attitude that was shown in the old days, before corporations grew up in this country and when there was a better understanding between employer and employee, we could settle this difficulty, at least, temporarily, in Colorado, and I am here to tell you I was absolutely refused any help in anything like that.
I am here also to answer any questions that you have to ask me, after making this general statement, that you wish to ask.
Commissioner O’Connell [James, 2nd V. P. American Federation of Labor]. The gentleman [Major Boughton] who just preceded you made the statement that all of the demands of the miners had been conceded up there sometime prior to the strike with the exception of one. A similar statement appeared from Mr. Rockefeller in the papers sometime ago, and a contradictory statement appeared from the officers of the miners. What is your knowledge of that situation?
Mr. Lindsey. Only what they tell me. Seeing that it is necessary to have a hoard of arbitration to find out definitely. I can only state from hearsay, namely, what the men tell me, the wives of the men tell me, that they have no respect for the law. For instance, that forbids the employer to refuse to employ a man simply because he has been in the union. We have laws in our State forbidding blacklisting. They claim that these companies refuse to respect that law. The men claim that when they protest against the dangerous conditions in the mines, that when they insist upon their protest, that they are fired at once.
I have talked to the labor inspectors out there, and they tell me that they have been refused the opportunity to investigate some of these mines not with standing the laws on the statute books. They tell me that the company stores are conducted in such a way that they are forced, practically, to trade at those stores, and they have many grievances in this regard that they want adjusted. I could mention others, but these occurred to me, Mr. Commissioner, that I have heard.
And on the question of wages, according to the testimony that has been furnished me, an average of between $2 and $3 a day is as much as a miner can hope to make. They claim there have been discriminations among the men as to the places that they shall work and the opportunities they shall have to work, and, indeed, I have heard so many complaints from men that have been down there, from the wives of men who have been down there, and things I have read in testimony and from matters that I think you will find on record before the investigating committee, that for these men to make a contention of that kind is certainly unjustified by the fact, or at least what purports to be the facts, and that, if you please, Mr. Commissioner, is to my mind one of the very reasons why they should consent to submit these matters to a board of arbitration. If it is true, then they have everything to gain and nothing to lose by submitting this to arbitration. I am here primarily in the interest of the best of our people out in Colorado. I want to say, however, that this feeling does not stop with the mine workers and the men only; it is percolating up and down into all classes of society, throwing people at each other’s throats when they get to discussing this unfortunate controversy, and it does no good to the peace and well-being of a State, and is a condition, a poisonous condition, that is producing this miasmatic effect, you might say, socially and politically in our State.
Commissioner O’Connell. Judge, the law creating this commission instructs them to seek and find the underlying causes of industrial unrest and report a remedy. What do you think the commission should do with reference to that situation in Colorado or that it should report to Congress as a result of your instruction?
Judge Lindsey. It is a mighty big question, Commissioner, to go into details. Still, I think you will have to report to Congress that there has got to be some great big changes made in the laws of property in this country, or the possession of property, or the private ownership in coal mines or other great public necessities must be changed entirely, because there must be some power that can settle disputes that are going to continue right along. Now, just what the detail of that might be would take us into all sorts of sociological discussions.
Commissioner O’Connell. Would it mean compulsory arbitration, or would you-
Judge Lindsey. No; I don’t say that. But I do believe that in the case of the Erdman Act, recently amended providing for voluntary arbitration, and the working of that came through one of your commission, Mrs. Harriman, largely, and the work we appreciate, and I feel that the public sentiment is so powerful that in a case like this, that if we have a law in Colorado such as you have in the Erdman Act, with reference to transportation companies, that if we had a law in Colorado in reference to our coal-mining property, or with reference to any of the other natural resources that provided for voluntary arbitration, sir, in a case like this right now, the high degree of public sentiment and public opinion in our State is so strong that neither party would dare to refuse to submit their side of this controversy to such a board.
Commissioner O’Connell. Would you extend the authority of that law, then, to cover mines and mining?
Judge Lindsey. Yes, sir; I think it should be, and I think the Government, Federal Government, should pass a law refusing to give title to any more lands that contain natural resources like coal, but should provide a leasing system, if you please, where the title remains in the Government, and with the right of the Government, if you please, always to settle disputes of this kind when they menace the peace and happiness of a whole State or any part of the Nation.
Commissioner Garretson. Did you hear the reply of your predecessor upon the stand to the question as to whether or not the inflammation of the public mind had been in any great degree allayed by the report of the military inquiry board, of which he was chairman? Did you hear the reply thereto?
Judge Lindsey. Why, that board, in our State, among most of the people, was regarded as a huge joke. [“Ludlow}…Report by Officers of Colorado National Guard]
Commissioner Garretson. Then public sentiment was in no sense changed by that report?
Judge Lindsey. Absolutely none, but more or less indignation that men [of the Colorado Militia] get together and pass judgment on themselves.
Commissioner Garretson. It was regarded, then, in exactly the sense that the question—one of the questions carried—that it was a case of the militia rendering a favorable report upon the acts of the militia?
Judge Lindsey. Yes, sir.
Commissioner Garretson. Is there any difference of interest or action between the different classes of mine owners of the State of Colorado; that is, metalliferous or coal?
Judge Lindsey. No; but with unions and possessions, they represent a solidarity when it comes to these questions.
Commissioner Garretson. Applies equally to the time when they had a universal association?
Judge Lindsey. Absolutely; just as strong as ever.
Commissioner Lennon. Judge, what has been the power of political domination in Huerfano and Las Animas Counties by the coal companies as to the election of sheriffs, coroners, prosecuting attorneys, and the other officers?
Judge Lindsey. As a rule, with a possible few exceptions, and I can recall no exceptions now, they have been absolutely the State, absolutely the State. The sheriffs and officers of that kind were, with a few exceptions, at different times when they broke through the lines, no more than their office boys. Not as much so, because an office boy can quit, and there is difficulty even if they could quit if they wanted to.
Chairman Walsh. That is all, Judge. You will be excused. Thank you.
Judge Lindsey. I wish to thank the commission for the privilege of appearing before you.
[Emphasis added.]
Note regarding “lawlessness”: Four of the seven demands of the striking coal miners of Colorado are state law, unenforced by the State Government and disregarded by mine owners.
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SOURCES
Quote KE Linderfelt re Damn Red Neck Bitches of Ludlow Massacre,
Apr 20, 1914, CIR p7378
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uiug.30112087783327&seq=398&q1=red+bitches&start=1
Industrial relations: final report and testimony submitted to Congress
by the Commission on Industrial Relations.
Washington, D.C., Gov. Print. Office, 1916.
Volume 7: 6001-6998
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uiug.30112087783293&seq=7
Contents for Volume 7
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uiug.30112087783293&seq=9
NYC, May 28, 1914, Afternoon Session
6399-Judge Ben B Lindsey
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uiug.30112087783293&seq=409
6403-Judge Lindsey, continues:
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uiug.30112087783293&seq=413
IMAGE
Judge Lindsey in Washington DC with Ludlow Survivors
WDC Eve Str p5, May 21, 1914
https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn83045462/1914-05-21/ed-1/seq-5/
See also:
Judge Benjamin Barr Lindsey (1869-1943)
https://history.denverlibrary.org/colorado-biographies/judge-benjamin-barr-lindsey-1869-1943
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_B._Lindsey
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/13430505/benjamin_barr_lindsey
Commission on Industrial Relations
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commission_on_Industrial_Relations
James O’Connell, 1858-1936
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_O%27Connell_(unionist)
The Erdman Act of 1898
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erdman_Act
Adair v. United States, 208 U.S. 161 (1908)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adair_v._United_States
Ludlow, being the report of the Special Board of Officers appointed by the Governor of Colorado to investigate and determine the facts with reference to the armed conflict between the Colorado National Guard and certain persons engaged at the coal mining strike at Ludlow, Colo., April 20, 1914
-by Colorado. Special Board of Officers to Inquire into the Armed Conflict, April 20, 1914
Denver CO, 1914
(search: edward j boughton)
https://archive.org/details/ludlowbeingrepor00colorich/page/n10/mode/1up?q=edward+j+boughton&view=theater
June 1914, Life and Labor
“Case for the Miners of Colorado” by Frank Hayes
-4 of 7 demands=state law, unenforced by state government
and disregarded by mine owners
(Search: “case for the miners”) p168-171
https://books.google.com/books?id=TF4eAAAAIAAJ
Hellraisers Journal – Sunday June 7, 1914
New York City – Testimony of Judge Benjamin B. Lindsey of Colorado Before Commission on Industrial Relations, Part I
Tag: Benjamin B Lindsey
https://weneverforget.org/tag/benjamin-b-lindsey/
Tag: Commission on Industrial Relations
https://weneverforget.org/tag/commission-on-industrial-relations/
Tag: Kingdom of Farr (Huerfano County CO)
https://weneverforget.org/tag/kingdom-of-farr/
Tag: Ludlow Massacre
https://weneverforget.org/tag/ludlow-massacre/
Tag: Colorado Coalfield Strike of 1913-1914
https://weneverforget.org/tag/colorado-coalfield-strike-of-1913-1914/
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